Isgeeky.com offer cutom built ActiveX controls from £10 ($16 approx) and would like to know if you would buy a custom built ActiveX control of your specification for that price.

BTW. Isgeeky.com is not up and running YET, you can see the testing site at http://test.isgeeky.com

[Edited by win_dir on 24-04-2003 at 08:02 AM GMT]

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Feel free to add comments to this post.

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yes, I would - but only if it saved me the TIME of doing it myself. By the time you contact, specify the design, pay for and recieve the OCX could I have written it myself

Of course, there are OCX's out there that if there were a cheaper alternative I would jump on...ZIP, Flexgrid, etc.

____________________________
Eggheads unite! You have nothing to lose but your yolks.

I was looking for this link when I made the other post...these guys write some REALLY cool stuff...and a cheaper alternative (even though if you factor in my TIME these controls are already cheap) would be GREAT!

Component 1

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Eggheads unite! You have nothing to lose but your yolks.

I AM astounded at how much people can charge for electronic data though! Why is nobody voooooooting?

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Well, personally I wouldn't buy a control. I'm just the type of person who likes to know how something's done, not just use some pre-made control without seeing the code behind it. There's many times even with my own controls and dll's that I'll just put the code snippets into a program over using the file -> mainly for space/registration concerns.

Of course if I worked for a place that didn't care about money, I wouldn't have a problem with them buying a control.

So my answer is both yes and no. Depending on the situation... but that's not an option.

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Just a question, how long is it expected to take for a simple control to be developed etc. by a company?

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mark...

if its created by a company, considering that the controls are built through teams, then i'd say a week or two perhaps.

i have encountered a team of programmers who created a system in three weeks, with all that database stuff, networking, and testing.

buying controls at any price depends on the need for it, and on who is buying.



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Been busy trying to take a second degree <--it's not working out...

vbgen, i did suggest the need for the control and the buyer in the title of the thread.

BTW. i am still working on the custom built ActiveX controls site, its just taking a bit longer than i thought it would because i just keep adding features to it.

I have also modified the idea because i figured if i manage to make my site popular, although i've left myself open to deny requests for controls i will be in a bit of a mess if i have loads of controls to do but not much time. So i am adding a feature where programmers can go to choose from all of the requested projects the one they like best, then they make the control and get 95% of the first sale and 80% maybe more of subsequent sales of that control.  If any of you would like to sign-up for this, nearly finished, feature then please tell me.

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well... i'd suggest that JL get into this... unless he has stable work already... remember the last time we stuck our noses into his life?

anyway, i'd be interested in this feature as well... i'll soon be graduating, and i'd have more free time, since i intend on being a freelance programmer... fortunately for me, in the philippines, most of the automated businesses belong to the rich, so demanding cheaper prices for the average business seems to be the path for me.



by the way... place a visitor counter in your site... if you're after popularity, start there... ait?

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Been busy trying to take a second degree <--it's not working out...

Not that it really matters to your business venture, but where are you located Win_Dir?

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Eggheads unite! You have nothing to lose but your yolks.

I am located in the Midlands in the UK, what makes you ask bean?

And VbGen i keep all of the visitor logs and then use a log analyzer to get the visitor counts and a whole load more statistics about the visitors path etc.

BTW, i will be moving it to http://www.isgeeky.com instead of http://test.isgeeky.com when it is done and then i will start promoting it with a few targeted banner ads, so expensive nowadays.

Anyway i'll add another message to the forum when i have finally launched the site so that you can add yourself, i'll be glad to have you aboard.

If you want to have a look at the sort of project board i'm on about, although its only half done, you can find it at http://test.isgeeky.com/dev/browse.php. i've only added a few categories and more features to add yet but you can see where i'm going. You can use:

Username: testuser
Password: testpass



Is everybody getting thier notification emails through from AndreaVB ok? i don't seem to have ANY from this topic but i always tick the email notification box.

[Edited by win_dir on 24-04-2003 at 07:43 PM GMT]

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As far as how long should it take... It would really depend on what all the control will do. Of course some hard tasks from a user standpoint could be really easy, and vice versa.

For instance, a simple control that adds say two/three standard controls (say a text box, and option buttons) would take 1 maybe 2 days (8hours). [I know, I have one]. Others may take weeks depending on how much is expected of them.

One company I worked at hired three contractors to do one program. About 2 and a half years later, it still didn't work right. Ok, 80% of the program had incorect values that I had to fix. So as you can tell, it was the "black sheep" program of the company. Everyone wanted to scrap it, but it cost so much (we're talking upwards of a million here) that they couldn't justify another 3 year design. I was able to fix all of the problems, increase performance in a year, and had a one-month timeline for a completely re-designed version - with only me working.

Ok, now that I've gotten off my main thought... For a timeline, I'd recommend a two week min for any control (unless you know it can be knocked off in a day or two). Complex ones being 3-4wks. I'd also recommend a request form that had the following questions (in one form or another):
1) When is the control needed? (kind of important)
2) What is the longest time you can wait? (to see if you can even do it)
3) Would you pay more for a rush job? (have it stated that rush jobs are first priority even if another came first)

Of course you'd have to take into consideration what all you can do, and the maximum number of projects you can do at a time.

I would recommend making a CD (or two/three) backups of all the code you can find online as tutorials. Nothing else, but you may be able to cut & paste and drastically increase your development time.

And I'd recommend making hybrid controls in the down time. Hybrids being taking a custom control, making modifications so it'd be more widely desired, and putting it up. This could increase sales, and decrease the amount of work you'll do for new ones.

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Some good ideas JL, i'm was going to update it asking for a bit more info anyway And i also need to integrate it a bit more automatically into the whole system because at the moement it just emails me the input from the form which is fine now, when i don't have many controls to check before i put them on the developers project board, but will be a pain when my site becomes more popular.

BTW. As a user which type of advertising would you say has more of an affect on you than any other?

[Edited by win_dir on 24-04-2003 at 10:21 PM GMT]

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Advertising...hmmmm...ads that don't assume i'm an idiot and ads that don't lie to me (hard to find)...dunno how to apply that to your work though...and as for the timeline issue, and to expand on what JL said about it depends on what the control needs to do. I mean, look at it this way...what is a (custom) control? Nothing more than another object, right? So the development of a complex object (lots of properties/methods/etc.) would absolutely take longer. As for how to guesstimate the development time...let's not forget the U.S.S. Enterprise's Engineer Scott's (Scotty) policy - take how long you think it will take you to do it then double it. You'll be a hero in the end! BUT only if your client can wait that long before he takes another option...

JL had some great ideas, my fav was "Would you pay more..."

____________________________
Eggheads unite! You have nothing to lose but your yolks.

Actually Eng. Scott multiplied his repair estimates by a factor of 4. Although I'd definately add up to a week "padding" for any controls. Kindof like the Scotty repair factor, multiply the actual time by 2-4 not to exceed a certain time frame:

Actual Time
To Complete*:                Date To give:
2-4days                          8-10 working days (1/2month)
5-10 days                       15-20 working days (1 month)

*Assuming you work on weekends.

You could have a pay rate-complexity-completion scale. Have say a set fee for a 1-2mo completion date for simple controls (2-3mo for complex), another rate for 2wk-1mo simple (1mo-2mo complex), and another rate for 1wk-2wk simple (2wk-1mo complex). With the stipulation that an estimate will be given, and that some may take longer depending on the requirements. Of course you'd start working as soon as you get a request, but that way you won't be rushed to finish controls in a few week period, and make the same money regardless.

As another option, not sure if you've considered it. Some companies want the source code so they can modify it. You may wish to have a set price (based on say, number of actual lines of code) for source code. Set it high enough that most people wouldn't be able to buy it, but companies could. As an example there's a help desk application that's done completely in Microsoft Access. It costs $500-1KUSD, source code I'm thinking was around $5KUSD.

Of course you'd want to put an agreement that they aren't allowed to sell, distrubute, give the source to people.

Offhand if you do decide to do this, I'd suggest something like the following (IN USD):

Non-Rush: $16
Priority:    $25              
Rush:       $40

Source Code provided (lines being actual non-comments/non sub/function required lines)
-under 100 lines: $250
-101-250 lines:    $350
-251-350 lines:    $500
-over 500 lines:   $500 + $.10*lines over 500

Of course the source code price is based on your cheap control price.

You may also want to consider "pre-packaged" controls, standard, professional, enterprise controls.

Could even be "annoying" and have a # of licenses for a control. Have a standard be personal use (include a splash screen when run so you get free advertising otherwise), professional (splash screen optional, unlimited corporate non--resale use), enterprise no splash screen, unlimited use for any purpose.

Of course you'd then want to have a set prices like:
standard=total cost of development+0
professional=total cost of development+250
enterprise=total cost of development +1000

of course if you do that, then you'd definately have to change the source code prices to:
all source code prices += enterprise edition
(that is, price=price+enterprise)


As far as advertisements, I normally don't look at advertisements. Did at one time (4-5years ago) but as the internet got bigger, most turned out to be junk; even so called legitimate ones (like computer based). So I can't help you there. I can say that if it's distracting, moves, flashes, whatever I definately won't click it (at least not on purpose).


[Edited by JLRodgers on 24-04-2003 at 06:40 PM GMT]

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dearest win_dir,

        first of all, i would suggest that you get into some sort of project planning, so that things won't get messy at all... as i know, you should work on projects according to relativity. if you have 6 or 7 controls to create, and 2 or 3 of these have the similar functions, then work with these at the same time. code will be reusable, and you can have all projects open at the same time. in planning for this you should know your personal schedule already, and then fix your time for programming into it. a lot of discipline will be needed, but i tell you... if you get sleepy, sleep. but first make sure that you can make up for lost time.

        therefore... as sun tzu said... know yourself, and know your enemy... well, in this case, the enemy is the number of controls you have to make. thisis business, so there is a point that you  would have to give up some pleasures you currently enjoy... if you normally get sleepy at this time, then don't plan at this time. do not force yourself to work at inappropriate times. again, it's in the planning. also, know your controls in demand. at the start, make sure you have set the scope and limitation of the specifications for each control. once you know the controls you have to make, you can immediately set your time frame for each, and i recommend you go as JL suggested.

        now another thing. if you've been coding properly and with comments, then take that as an advantage now, especially if you will be giving off some source doe for companies, as JL had already mentioned. if not, then shape up, ait?   i guess i said it right in one of my classes in school...

quote:

---

The time will come that all the hours lost on commenting will give you back more than twice the hours when selling

---

Thanks for all your posts! I like the idea that JL has given about the no-rush,priority and the Rush, however my plan was to ask them to set a price themselves and then modify the price according to the complexity of the control. Which one do you think i should do??

Advertising, thats an awful word. Nobody, like you said that has any sense these days clicks on traditional advertising means.

So, the other options...Search engines and newsletters. If you can get a high enough place in the search engine that should be your main source of income, i'm proud of my first place for "active x" at http://www.exactseek.com!

Newsletters, you can inform people about your products, you can sell useless ads on them you can market your new products etc. But how do you get people to signup for them?! What would make you signup for a newsletter at Isgeeky.com?

Planning, organisation. Ouch! Yeah, i'll be making a workable schedule for each control and other things that i have to do.

I DO NOT plan to charge for # of licenses etc. or different editions unless i see fit for a particular control. One of my goals is to keep everything apart from the source code as cheap as i can but also as profitable as i can.

I totally agree with the pricing of the source code JL. How do you think i should treat the currency issue? Should i put everything in GBP and put the price in USD in brackets?

Yeah, i think i'm probably going to have to do a little more constructive commenting vbgen. For instance with my site i have done about more than 1-2 thousand lines and i've commented about 2 of them. Although i understand most of what i've done, there are loads and loads of layout tables that i have used and i can't see where one begins and where one ends!

And JL, i think VBgen is really desperate for you to answer his question now! Will you be participating with my website?

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forgot to add, could you all find of put down a few categories that ActiveX controls can be put into. This is so that i can give the client a choice of categories to put his request into. the sort of categories i'm on about you can find listed on the request form at http://test.isgeeky.com/request2.php

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Well, actually the rush jobs and complexity aren't exclusive. You can have both, up to a point. Some complex jobs may be able to be done within a few weeks (perhaps still within a rush/priority timeline giving you more money). Even if not you could have a rush jobs with simple controls, and just normal timeframes with complex ones. Regardless the main part is not getting more controls than you can create in a period, and not missing deadlines.

Some places may also wish for status updates. You may want a "status report" e-mail to be provided, or a page online that requires a login so they can see how it's going.

Here's something else... Language. While many things have to have an English language, you can use other languages for comments/routine names, etc. You might want to have a note that all routine names (the stuff they'll see) will be English (unless you're going to use some other language).

For pricing there's a little catch... Not sure how paypal does it, but the conversion rate between curriencies changes frequently. Meaning, not sure if you use it, if you'll just request a set fee in that person's currency, or set the currency on paypal, causing a conversion variance. You may want a link to an online money converter, and provide a basic chart for conversions on a cost help page to help others out.

Although I'd say have your currency, and USD by it - with a note that prices may vary depending on conversion rates.

Like:
ControlName        GBP     USD
or
ControlName        USD     GBP

(to the question)
Perhaps, depends on my schedule.


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Regarding the currency conversion rates, what i will do is store the latest value i have in a database and when the PHP pages are being retrieved get it to do:

Original GBP Price * Current USD conversion rate = New USD Price

The status report is another good idea of yours. I'll do it web-based so that people don't need access to thier email account, it should be pretty easy to add with the user authorization system i already have in place.

Well, its getting there! What do you think of my mini-logo kind of advertising for on the forum? I've tried it when its put as my avatar icon and it looks quite distinctive.


[Edited by win_dir on 28-04-2003 at 07:30 PM GMT]

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This is in response to...

quote:

---

...how do you get people to signup for them?! What would make you signup for a newsletter at Isgeeky.com?

---

quote:

---

could you all find of put down a few categories that ActiveX controls can be put into

---

quote:

---

Well, personally I wouldn't buy a control. I'm just the type of person who likes to know how something's done, not just use some pre-made control without seeing the code behind it.

---

I think that my main customers will be:

-beginners that need to get a project finsihed that they though they could take on but aren't able to finish

-small companies that don't have a big enough budget to hire a programmer to do ALL of the work for them

BTW. thanx for the categories

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